MS – Orly v Democrat -Part 11 Label Fonts

Another example as to why it is so much better to check the source files themselves and not rely on Illustrator. As I said, researchers should use these basic tools, to avoid confusion with font substitution etc.

Hermitian: However, here is where the plot deepens. The Arial font used in the original documents is a proprietary font. Apparently, the person who modified the documents did not have access to this proprietary Arial font. However, font manufacturers have used a trick to get around the proprietary license. They just copy the same font but with metric dimensions equivalent to the English dimensions of the proprietary font. As it turns out, the “Liberation Sans” font is metrically equivalent to the “Arial MT” font.

Source

gov.uscourtsmssd.78493.15.1.pdf shows the following font information for the labels. No evidence of Arial MT or Liberation Sans.

Those familiar with the actual PDF object language will recognize that the label (Obj 16 is rendered using Font object /Xi0 which is linked to object 34. Object 34 is a Helvetica basefont. The same applies for documents 35.1 and 43 (scanned in by the Court).

I am not sure why Hermitian believes the font to be Arial or Liberation Sans.

name                                 type              emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- ---------
Times New Roman,Bold                 TrueType          no  no  no      32  0
Times New Roman                      TrueType          no  no  no      33  0
Helvetica                            Type 1            no  no  no      34  0

obj 16 0
 Type:
 Referencing: 24 0 R
 Contains stream
<<
 /Length 24 0 R
 /Filter /FlateDecode
 >>
' Q q BT 0 0 1 rg /Xi0 12 Tf 1 0 0 1 96.24 767 Tm(Case 3:12-cv-00280-HTW-LRA   Document 15-1    Filed 05/04/12   Page 1 of 2)Tj ETQ'
obj 31 0
 Type:
 Referencing: 34 0 R
<<
 /Xi1 34 0 R
 >>
obj 34 0
 Type: /Font
 Referencing:
<<
 /BaseFont /Helvetica
 /Type /Font
 /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding
 /Subtype /Type1
 >>

gov.uscourtsmssd.78493.42.0.pdf shows the following font information for the labels

obj 1 0
 Type: /Font
 Referencing:
<<
 /BaseFont /Helvetica
 /Type /Font
 /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding
 /Subtype /Type1
 >>

gov.uscourtsmssd.78493.35.1.pdf shows the following font information for the labels

name                                 type              emb sub uni object ID
------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- ---------
Times-Italic                         Type 1            no  no  no      76  0
Times-Roman                          Type 1            no  no  no      77  0
Helvetica-Oblique                    Type 1            no  no  no      78  0
Helvetica                            Type 1            no  no  no      79  0
Helvetica                            Type 1            no  no  no      80  0
HiddenHorzOCR                        CID Type 0C       yes no  yes     82  0
Helvetica                            Type 1            no  no  no      83  0
Times-Italic                         Type 1            no  no  no      84  0
Helvetica-Oblique                    Type 1            no  no  no      85  0
Times-Roman                          Type 1            no  no  no      86  0
Helvetica                            Type 1            no  no  no      88  0
Times-Roman                          Type 1            no  no  no      89  0
HiddenHorzOCR                        CID Type 0C       yes no  yes     91  0
Times-Roman                          Type 1            no  no  no      92  0
Helvetica                            Type 1            no  no  no      93  0
obj 80 0
 Type: /Font
 Referencing:
<<
 /BaseFont /Helvetica
 /Type /Font
 /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding
 /Subtype /Type1
 >>

23 thoughts on “MS – Orly v Democrat -Part 11 Label Fonts

  1. How odd you should post this today. I spent part of my afternoon figuring out what the IS department and I needed to do to have our templates point to the correct location so the server based process would embed the correct fonts in the PDF creation. If not, they just use the base Times and Helvetica fonts.

    I am not sure where Hermie is going with this. Most local client PDF creators would use the local font folder and embed the font. It would be near impossible to find a desktop or laptop without Arial. I would imagine ECF to use the base fonts since outside submitters would not know how to insert the custom settings needed.

  2. “NBC

    “I am not sure why Hermitian believes the font to be Arial or Liberation Sans.”

    Now you do !

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial

    “Arial is held in disregard by many professional typographers and type enthusiasts, for reasons relating to its similarity to other typefaces and the involvement of Microsoft in its development and distribution.[7] It is reinforced by Arial’s apparent status as a de facto Helvetica stand-in, but without paying royalties, or credit, to Helvetica. Arial’s glyph widths are nearly identical to those of Helvetica,[7][26]”

    So Microsoft is a dirty word in the typeface community.

    Dumbkus !

    I’ll have more on this font issue later. But of course all that really matters is what font does your reader assign to the text you are reading. What’s buried in some line of PDF code is a nice academic exercise but it has zero practical value.

  3. What’s buried in some line of PDF code is a nice academic exercise but it has zero practical value.

    On the contrary, it shows what the creator software did. You do realize that in order to understand the PDF you should not rely on what the reader software does… A good and thorough investigator goes deep down to the original sources. That’s how I found the embedded comment in the JPEG which I tracked back to Xerox Workcentre devices.

    You cannot let yourself be distracted by how readers mangle the software, you need to go deep down to the original sources or your conclusions become quite foolish.

  4. I’ll have more on this font issue later. But of course all that really matters is what font does your reader assign to the text you are reading. What’s buried in some line of PDF code is a nice academic exercise but it has zero practical value.

    Your comment shows exactly the opposite of what a researcher/investigator would do when analyzing the documents.
    Which may explain why you have come to such foolish conclusions like ‘forgery’, ‘strike outs’, ‘editing masks’ and so on…

    You need to get your hands dirty with the low level tools. You can of course use Illustrator to verify your findings but using Illustrator as your only source of information means that you throw away a lot of valuable data.

    I have told you this many times now and my own findings continue to show support for this.

    It is not that hard to use these tools and learn the low level PDF.

    Without such understanding, the ‘investigation’ becomes nothing more than ‘rumors’ and ‘hearsay’

  5. Awww… Poor Hermie! Wetting your diaper and stamping your widdle feet because it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with Obama’s birth certificate. There, there, pal. It’ll all be over in a few years… all except the mocking and ridiculing you Birthers, which will go on for centuries.

  6. “NBC

    “July 16, 2013 15:42

    “I’ll have more on this font issue later. But of course all that really matters is what font does your reader assign to the text you are reading. What’s buried in some line of PDF code is a nice academic exercise but it has zero practical value.

    “Your comment shows exactly the opposite of what a researcher/investigator would do when analyzing the documents.
    Which may explain why you have come to such foolish conclusions like ‘forgery’, ‘strike outs’, ‘editing masks’ and so on…

    “You need to get your hands dirty with the low level tools. You can of course use Illustrator to verify your findings but using Illustrator as your only source of information means that you throw away a lot of valuable data.

    “I have told you this many times now and my own findings continue to show support for this.

    “It is not that hard to use these tools and learn the low level PDF.

    “Without such understanding, the ‘investigation’ becomes nothing more than ‘rumors’ and ‘hearsay’”

    NBC continues to underestimate both my skills and my tools. Which means I have him exactly where I want him. Believe me, I use the full spectrum of tools. But I have carefully chosen tools that are industry standard and the query profiles are fully verified. I prefer the suite of Adobe programs as the definitive software for working with PDF files. However, I also use a number of other programs for specific tasks.

    My screenshots for the original and modified fonts for Pacer downloaded Document 15-1.pdf are in this two-page PDF:

    Notice that the original font is Arial MT under Helvetica and that the modified font is Liberation Sans.

    Liberation Sans is a metric equivalent to Arial.

  7. NBC continues to underestimate both my skills and my tools. Which means I have him exactly where I want him. Believe me, I use the full spectrum of tools. But I have carefully chosen tools that are industry standard and the query profiles are fully verified. I prefer the suite of Adobe programs as the definitive software for working with PDF files. However, I also use a number of other programs for specific tasks.

    I am not underestimating your skills, I am merely observing how you stumble through Illustrator while not showing evidence of using any of the low level analyses tools.

    That’s unfortunate because you loose out on so much information.

  8. NBC – “On the contrary, it shows what the creator software did.”

    That’s exactly why Hermie doesn’t use the tools to analyze the pdf code.

  9. Notice that the original font is Arial MT under Helvetica and that the modified font is Liberation Sans.

    No, the ArialMT is what Illustrator chose to use instead of Helvetica. Once again, you are looking at the changes Illustrator makes for no good reason when displaying a perfectly valid pdf.

  10. I think you are missing the point of my post. The modified font is Liberation Sans. Three differnt codes say so. These three are Illustrator and Acrobat and PDF XChange Viewer Pro. Neither of these three programs include the Liberation Sans font as an available font but they each identified it. Neither of these three codes can substitute Liberation Sans for any other font. The change from Arial to Liberation sans is less than from Helvitica to Liberation Sans. But all three programs detected the change and tied it to the iText modification.

  11. think you are missing the point of my post. The modified font is Liberation Sans. Three differnt codes say so. These three are Illustrator and Acrobat and PDF XChange Viewer Pro. Neither of these three programs include the Liberation Sans font as an available font but they each identified it. Neither of these three codes can substitute Liberation Sans for any other font

    Yes, the font is embedded so the reader does not have to provide for the font. Makes a lot of sense to use a freeware font that can be embedded. No?

  12. “W. Kevin Vicklund

    July 17, 2013 01:56

    “Notice that the original font is Arial MT under Helvetica and that the modified font is Liberation Sans.

    “No, the ArialMT is what Illustrator chose to use instead of Helvetica. Once again, you are looking at the changes Illustrator makes for no good reason when displaying a perfectly valid pdf.”

    Wrong ! Wrong !

    Adobe Illustrator CS6 correctly identified the font as Liberation Sans. However because the Liberation Sans font is not an available font in Illustrator, the code warns:

    “The document contains PDF objects that have been reinterpreted:

    “The font LiberationSans is missing. Affected text will be displayed using a substitute font.”

    To see Liberation Sans in Illustrator you would have to purchase the font and install it on your system. The same is true for Adobe Acrobat, Adobe Reader and PDF XChange Viewer Pro.

    This would also be the case for NBC’s Helvetica font.

    So the question for NBC is — What viewer is he going to use to read the 15-1 case label in Helvetica font?

    Because, unless he purchases Helvetica and installs it on his Macintosh, then he can’t read Helvetica with Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Acrobat, Adobe Reader or PDF XChange Pro.

    And that’s just the way it is.

  13. “NBC

    “July 17, 2013 04:26

    “I think you are missing the point of my post. The modified font is Liberation Sans. Three different codes say so. These three are Illustrator and Acrobat and PDF XChange Viewer Pro. Neither of these three programs include the Liberation Sans font as an available font but they each identified it. Neither of these three codes can substitute Liberation Sans for any other font

    “Yes, the font is embedded so the reader does not have to provide for the font. Makes a lot of sense to use a freeware font that can be embedded. No?”

    There you go again believing everything that you see in all those lines of PDF code with your free PDF parser.

    The acid test for embedded text vs selectable text in a PDF file is to check with Adobe Reader to see if the text can be selected by mouse and cursor. In this case for the iText modified 15-1.pdf file all of the text of the case label is selectable. Adobe Reader XI identifies the font as Liberation Sans. Adobe Acrobat XI Pro also identifies the font as Liberation Sans. Finally both Adobe Illustrator CS6 and PDF XChange Viewer Pro also identify the font as Liberation Sans.

    You can find everything that you need to know about the use of this font in the iText modified 15-1.pdf document here:

  14. Adobe Illustrator CS6 correctly identified the font as Liberation Sans. However because the Liberation Sans font is not an available font in Illustrator, the code warns:
    “The document contains PDF objects that have been reinterpreted:
    “The font LiberationSans is missing. Affected text will be displayed using a substitute font.”

    And yet another reason it’s a bad idea to use Illustrator to analyze PDFs. It (apparently) doesn’t recognize that the Liberation Sans font is embedded in the file. A proper pdf editor should recognize that there is a font definition included so that there is no need to check to see if the font resides on the computer.

    The acid test for embedded text vs selectable text in a PDF file is to check with Adobe Reader to see if the text can be selected by mouse and cursor.

    Why are you babbling about embedded and selectable text? NBC was talking about an embedded font – that means that the font definition is contained in the PDF.

  15. You can find everything that you need to know about the use of this font in the iText modified 15-1.pdf document here:

    Including the fact that it is an embedded font, like NBC said.

  16. So the question for NBC is — What viewer is he going to use to read the 15-1 case label in Helvetica font?

    Because, unless he purchases Helvetica and installs it on his Macintosh, then he can’t read Helvetica with Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Acrobat, Adobe Reader or PDF XChange Pro.

    And that’s just the way it is.

    Again Hermitian shows why relying on these high level viewers does not allow him to fully appreciate the evidence present in the actual PDF files.

    As I showed, the liberation sans is embedded in the file.

    STCCFS+LiberationSans                TrueType          yes yes no      80  0

    It is an embedded font (first yes), it is a subset (second yes) and it is not a Unicode Font (no). Illustrator complains because many of the font entries are missing and thus you cannot really edit the file using this font.
    But it still renders the font.

    It shows once again, that illustrator is not a very good tool to rely on when doing a ‘forensic’ investigation.

    But I have told you that many times before now.

    Oh and the Liberation Sans font is freeware…

  17. Including the fact that it is an embedded font, like NBC said.

    Yes indeed… Just simple tools… Nothing fancy like Illustrator which only seems to confuse people.

  18. There you go again believing everything that you see in all those lines of PDF code with your free PDF parser.

    The parser shows what happens ‘under the hood’, you see everything filtered through Adobe software and miss out on the tell tale signs.

    No wonder you appear to be so confused.

    Why not use these parsers? It requires only minimal effort and the information revealed is incredible.

    Which is why I am surprised the Cold Case Posse never seems to have used these approaches…

  19. You can find everything that you need to know about the use of this font in the iText modified 15-1.pdf document here:

    Indeed, and with the correct tools, you too can understand the intricate details.

    Research does require you to ‘get your hands a bit dirty’.
    How else do you think I managed to debunk the arguments about the WH pdf being fraudulent because of the layers and artifacts? How else did I manage to reveal how the artifacts in document 35-1 were created?

    Hard work, and an open mind to let the data lead wherever it may.

  20. “NBC

    “July 17, 2013 19:27

    “You can find everything that you need to know about the use of this font in the iText modified 15-1.pdf document here:

    “Indeed, and with the correct tools, you too can understand the intricate details.

    “Research does require you to ‘get your hands a bit dirty’.
    How else do you think I managed to debunk the arguments about the WH pdf being fraudulent because of the layers and artifacts? How else did I manage to reveal how the artifacts in document 35-1 were created?”

    “Hard work, and an open mind to let the data lead wherever it may.”

    So now it’s you and not Vicklund who solved the riddle of the LFCOLB artifacts in Tepper’s document 35-1.pdf ?

    No wonder you deep sixed all of his results from his OCR scans using Adobe Acrobat 9.2.

    I’m still waiting to see his printouts of all the Black Rectangles, Broad-line Strikeouts and Line Elements from his OCR scans of the WH LFOLB PDF image.

  21. So now it’s you and not Vicklund who solved the riddle of the LFCOLB artifacts in Tepper’s document 35-1.pdf ?

    It’s a combined effort. Vicklund did the experiment which is so trivial that you should be able to repeat it as you appear to have all the tools.

    I am sure that you have already done the experiment. Could you report on it?

    Or do you need Vicklund’s help?

    As I have shown, both the 35-1 and the Vicklund file contain the same objects that create black blocks and lines and in both cases they are hidden.

    If you need additional help parsing the pdf, then please let me know and I can explain.

    In fact I found several other PDFs now which show the same behavior and they were all created with Adobe Acrobat Paper Capture..

    Weird is it not that all these pdf’s all show similar artifacts…

    ROTFL

  22. I could not have done it without people like Vicklund or others who contributed the Xerox Workcentre PDFs.

Comments are closed.